User: Hylian8
Staff: Countypo, Nicolu, TheDoleking, Caldavas, Guitarmaniac004
Offense: Multiple cases of blatant xraying of Iron, Coal, Gold, and Lapis. As of 2 weeks ago he denied it.
Course of Action: Banned for 7 days, xrayed resources will be removed, may appeal.
Hylian8
Moderators: Fabeth, Korthic, Nicolu, caldrin, Explodingboxes
Re: Hylian8
I will gladly appeal as I have absolutely not Xrayed. The next few pictures are screenshots of my statistics monitor which I will use to assist in my appeal. To help save time, you don't have to read through all of them if you don't want to - I'm just laying it out there. The numbers I will be using are provided in my appeal. If you'd like to cross-check, the numbers are here.
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- Statistics Blocks 2.png (140.96 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
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- Statistics Blocks.png (145.42 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
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Last edited by Hylian8 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hylian8
Post 2 on Statistics
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- Statistics Blocks 5.png (141.09 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
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- Statistics Blocks 4.png (135.76 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
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- Statistics Blocks 3.png (142.13 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
Re: Hylian8
One more picture below...
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- Statistics Blocks 6.png (139.81 KiB) Viewed 1731 times
Re: Hylian8
Case for myself next...
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Re: Hylian8
*This is very long, so I added a TLDR at the bottom of the post.
Alright... so... based on the first post, you can see the initial statistics. 3.00 days. You can check your logs and verify that pretty much all of those 72 hours were spent on the server. When I initially joined the server, I was very excited to have found a good place with a lot of exciting things to see. I was very enthusiastic and very much hoped to contribute to the server. I decided to get materials without direction. After a few days of just mining, I decided that I would build the Temple of Time. And so I did, focusing mostly on the exterior.
The floor of the temple was not intended to be iron - in fact, I hadn't planned that far ahead. It became iron simply because I already had a lot of the second most common mineral in the game - Iron.
One of my favorite aspects of the game is in exploration and dungeoning. That is how I amassed the materials I did.
Take a look at the chart here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File: ... Height.png
You can see that coal is roughly 1% of blocks spawned. Iron is about 0.6% of spawned blocks. For the first few days of gameplay I collected any and all materials I found. After I had enough coal, I stopped collecting that but continued to collect all the iron I could in either large canyons or abandoned rail stations.
Looking at the chart of spawned blocks and minerals, and given my style of play, my numbers make complete sense. I've mined 11,586 Stone (most commonly appearing thing), 2353 Coal (Second most commonly appearing mineral), 1,475 Iron (third most commonly appearing thing), 136 Restone (fourth most commonly appearing thing - this is an outlier. I don't understand redstone circuits so I use it for light instead of mining it), 352 gold (Fifth most common mineral minus clay -Always collected - I intended for a golden triforce to mark all my buildings), 76 diamond and 71 lapis (Which occur at roughly equal ratios).
These numbers not only make sense - but they're consistent.
So let's focus on the accusation - Iron, Coal, Gold, and Lapis. Can we first highlight that these are four of five minerals that I actively collect, and 4 of 7 total (excluding Emeralds). I don't collect Redstone, and I don't collect clay. The only outlier is the most valuable mineral in the game: Diamond. Though, this does appear at similar ratios to lapis at Y level 11. (which is where I search for diamond - the lowest open space usually spawns at Y: 11 and I generally won't dig into a wall of lava this way). Being that my Lapis:Diamond ratio is at 9.3:10, this number would be consistent with the rates of random encounter.
I maintain that my general strategy is not to dig in a straight line, unless it's to find an open area. The idea is that open areas provide the most visual sightline for blocks with the least amount of effort. In a large cavern, I can see probably 300 - 500 blocks in any direction from one location without having to mine anything. In a large cavern that I explore, I could see a LOT of blocks without having to mine anything. This allows for me to see a lot of exposed minerals - which I can then choose to mine. If a cavern spawns at anywhere between Y:5 and Y:60, I have a very good chance at finding a lot of coal and iron. That's pretty much anywhere you mine below grass level.
My most common play strategy is almost verbatim the "Caving" article found here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutor ... techniques . In this wiki article, there is a statement that supports my case: "Ore veins are often found exposed along the walls, floors and ceilings of caves. Exploring a large cave system almost always results in finding large quantities of ore. Cave mining has a high return on investment, yielding more ore per time spent and requiring fewer tools (less pickaxe and shovel durability is lost mining stone, dirt, and gravel) than other approaches."
If I'm in a mineshaft (which I love for the chances of finding chests) - I'm generally between Y:15 and Y:35 - the level that most commonly spawns gold.
My mob kill count is 3,025. This is an extremely high number which provides evidence that my play style is not simply dig in a direction - it's to maximize my visible area by using caverns and mineshafts (thus providing mobs that I have to kill).
Now, let's address the time played vs minerals mined. We're looking at 72 hours of playtime. I'm going to guess that roughly 40% of this was spent mining while the rest was spent exploring, collecting items, building, getting settled, chatting, etc. This is about 29 hours of straight-up looking for minerals.
1475 Iron/29 Hours is about 51 iron per hour. Being that Iron spawns in 5-7 block veins, this amounts to only 8.5 veins of Iron per hour of searching. This is, again, only if I've dungeoned for 40% of my time on the server.
Coal appears in even larger veins - let's assume 2x the size. 2353/29 = 81 blocks per hour/12 block veins = an average of 6.7 veins per hour. If you dig straight down, you'd probably find 1-2 veins. If you're lucky (you don't have to be lucky - they're everywhere), you'll land in a valley where 5-6 veins are immediately visible. This is an incredibly LOW number for a mineral with an incredibly HIGH level of spawn. On the surface, it seems like such a high number. In reality, it's a very low number per hour.
The ratio of diamond to lapis should be enough to settle that I haven't been XRaying for either. If I was Xraying, I would certainly have many more diamonds, of which I actually use, than I would of lapis, that I haven't used yet. If you just look at the armor I wear, it should be very clear that I place a value on diamond. I have Iron Helmet, Leggings, and Boots, and a Diamond Chestplate. This is because I don't want to die in lava and lose a lot of Diamond materials. Logically, this is a type of value that would only be appreciated if I didn't always know where I could restock diamond. Diamond isn't in the accusation, but it deserves a mention because it is considered to be the most valuable of the materials.
Even if I only spent 30% of my time exploring - that's 1475 Iron/21.6 Hours/6 blocks per vein = 11.4 Veins of iron (for a total of 68 blocks of iron - which is just one stack of iron plus a little bit). 2353/21.7/12 = 9 Veins of Coal per hour (not an impressive feat).
I understand that my numbers are high - but they're all consistently high and are in line with how many hours I've played. I went on a playing spree before vacation - I put in a lot of hours in a short amount of time.
As for my final case, if you add up all the times I've used a pickaxe, this amounts to 23,291 times of using my pickaxe (most of it with a diamond pickaxe). Adding up all the accused minerals, the number comes to 4,251 blocks mined - 18.25% of all mined blocks. I think a character who can see where minerals are can be more efficient than that.
Taking one last look at the accusation - 4 out of 7 minerals - this is over 50% of naturally occurring minerals. You're missing something... I'm actually just good at the game and know what I'm doing. I'm the kind of player that can climb a wall using a single bucket of water. I've actually just put in 72 hours in the hopes that I could build something that people on the server could see and think "Wow, that's cool." I've actually just been a random player who thought I could do something awesome.
*Edited for grammar, consistency, new refutes, fresh logic, removed snarky comments, and to let you know I've edited. And added a TLDR
TLDR;
1. My numbers are consistent with time played and caving exploration style.
2. If 30% of my playtime is spent gathering materials, this amounts to 21.6 hours of exploring. This also amounts to only 10-11 veins of iron every hour of looking and 8-9 veins of coal. These stats are not impressive.
3. I've been pretty cautious with diamond. Logic dictates that if I was XRaying, and knew where to get diamonds without trying, it would be illogical to place a value on it.
4. If someone knows of a free source I can use to share my screen with a moderator, I'm willing to go on a hunt for materials with a screen share. This would prove that I can amass these materials in a specific amount of time without the use of an XRay.
Alright... so... based on the first post, you can see the initial statistics. 3.00 days. You can check your logs and verify that pretty much all of those 72 hours were spent on the server. When I initially joined the server, I was very excited to have found a good place with a lot of exciting things to see. I was very enthusiastic and very much hoped to contribute to the server. I decided to get materials without direction. After a few days of just mining, I decided that I would build the Temple of Time. And so I did, focusing mostly on the exterior.
The floor of the temple was not intended to be iron - in fact, I hadn't planned that far ahead. It became iron simply because I already had a lot of the second most common mineral in the game - Iron.
One of my favorite aspects of the game is in exploration and dungeoning. That is how I amassed the materials I did.
Take a look at the chart here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/File: ... Height.png
You can see that coal is roughly 1% of blocks spawned. Iron is about 0.6% of spawned blocks. For the first few days of gameplay I collected any and all materials I found. After I had enough coal, I stopped collecting that but continued to collect all the iron I could in either large canyons or abandoned rail stations.
Looking at the chart of spawned blocks and minerals, and given my style of play, my numbers make complete sense. I've mined 11,586 Stone (most commonly appearing thing), 2353 Coal (Second most commonly appearing mineral), 1,475 Iron (third most commonly appearing thing), 136 Restone (fourth most commonly appearing thing - this is an outlier. I don't understand redstone circuits so I use it for light instead of mining it), 352 gold (Fifth most common mineral minus clay -Always collected - I intended for a golden triforce to mark all my buildings), 76 diamond and 71 lapis (Which occur at roughly equal ratios).
These numbers not only make sense - but they're consistent.
So let's focus on the accusation - Iron, Coal, Gold, and Lapis. Can we first highlight that these are four of five minerals that I actively collect, and 4 of 7 total (excluding Emeralds). I don't collect Redstone, and I don't collect clay. The only outlier is the most valuable mineral in the game: Diamond. Though, this does appear at similar ratios to lapis at Y level 11. (which is where I search for diamond - the lowest open space usually spawns at Y: 11 and I generally won't dig into a wall of lava this way). Being that my Lapis:Diamond ratio is at 9.3:10, this number would be consistent with the rates of random encounter.
I maintain that my general strategy is not to dig in a straight line, unless it's to find an open area. The idea is that open areas provide the most visual sightline for blocks with the least amount of effort. In a large cavern, I can see probably 300 - 500 blocks in any direction from one location without having to mine anything. In a large cavern that I explore, I could see a LOT of blocks without having to mine anything. This allows for me to see a lot of exposed minerals - which I can then choose to mine. If a cavern spawns at anywhere between Y:5 and Y:60, I have a very good chance at finding a lot of coal and iron. That's pretty much anywhere you mine below grass level.
My most common play strategy is almost verbatim the "Caving" article found here: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Tutor ... techniques . In this wiki article, there is a statement that supports my case: "Ore veins are often found exposed along the walls, floors and ceilings of caves. Exploring a large cave system almost always results in finding large quantities of ore. Cave mining has a high return on investment, yielding more ore per time spent and requiring fewer tools (less pickaxe and shovel durability is lost mining stone, dirt, and gravel) than other approaches."
If I'm in a mineshaft (which I love for the chances of finding chests) - I'm generally between Y:15 and Y:35 - the level that most commonly spawns gold.
My mob kill count is 3,025. This is an extremely high number which provides evidence that my play style is not simply dig in a direction - it's to maximize my visible area by using caverns and mineshafts (thus providing mobs that I have to kill).
Now, let's address the time played vs minerals mined. We're looking at 72 hours of playtime. I'm going to guess that roughly 40% of this was spent mining while the rest was spent exploring, collecting items, building, getting settled, chatting, etc. This is about 29 hours of straight-up looking for minerals.
1475 Iron/29 Hours is about 51 iron per hour. Being that Iron spawns in 5-7 block veins, this amounts to only 8.5 veins of Iron per hour of searching. This is, again, only if I've dungeoned for 40% of my time on the server.
Coal appears in even larger veins - let's assume 2x the size. 2353/29 = 81 blocks per hour/12 block veins = an average of 6.7 veins per hour. If you dig straight down, you'd probably find 1-2 veins. If you're lucky (you don't have to be lucky - they're everywhere), you'll land in a valley where 5-6 veins are immediately visible. This is an incredibly LOW number for a mineral with an incredibly HIGH level of spawn. On the surface, it seems like such a high number. In reality, it's a very low number per hour.
The ratio of diamond to lapis should be enough to settle that I haven't been XRaying for either. If I was Xraying, I would certainly have many more diamonds, of which I actually use, than I would of lapis, that I haven't used yet. If you just look at the armor I wear, it should be very clear that I place a value on diamond. I have Iron Helmet, Leggings, and Boots, and a Diamond Chestplate. This is because I don't want to die in lava and lose a lot of Diamond materials. Logically, this is a type of value that would only be appreciated if I didn't always know where I could restock diamond. Diamond isn't in the accusation, but it deserves a mention because it is considered to be the most valuable of the materials.
Even if I only spent 30% of my time exploring - that's 1475 Iron/21.6 Hours/6 blocks per vein = 11.4 Veins of iron (for a total of 68 blocks of iron - which is just one stack of iron plus a little bit). 2353/21.7/12 = 9 Veins of Coal per hour (not an impressive feat).
I understand that my numbers are high - but they're all consistently high and are in line with how many hours I've played. I went on a playing spree before vacation - I put in a lot of hours in a short amount of time.
As for my final case, if you add up all the times I've used a pickaxe, this amounts to 23,291 times of using my pickaxe (most of it with a diamond pickaxe). Adding up all the accused minerals, the number comes to 4,251 blocks mined - 18.25% of all mined blocks. I think a character who can see where minerals are can be more efficient than that.
Taking one last look at the accusation - 4 out of 7 minerals - this is over 50% of naturally occurring minerals. You're missing something... I'm actually just good at the game and know what I'm doing. I'm the kind of player that can climb a wall using a single bucket of water. I've actually just put in 72 hours in the hopes that I could build something that people on the server could see and think "Wow, that's cool." I've actually just been a random player who thought I could do something awesome.
*Edited for grammar, consistency, new refutes, fresh logic, removed snarky comments, and to let you know I've edited. And added a TLDR
TLDR;
1. My numbers are consistent with time played and caving exploration style.
2. If 30% of my playtime is spent gathering materials, this amounts to 21.6 hours of exploring. This also amounts to only 10-11 veins of iron every hour of looking and 8-9 veins of coal. These stats are not impressive.
3. I've been pretty cautious with diamond. Logic dictates that if I was XRaying, and knew where to get diamonds without trying, it would be illogical to place a value on it.
4. If someone knows of a free source I can use to share my screen with a moderator, I'm willing to go on a hunt for materials with a screen share. This would prove that I can amass these materials in a specific amount of time without the use of an XRay.
Last edited by Hylian8 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 6:13 pm, edited 17 times in total.
Re: Hylian8
I will need this to be remedied between the moderation staff, because I will continue to pull in consistent numbers through legitimate means. If my math is not convincing enough, I ask that someone directs me to a service I can use to film my screen while I play to share with the staff.
I understand it's the mod's job to maintain a server that is balanced and fair. I appreciate this and am glad that the moderators are active and care about the community. This further reinforces that this server is indeed a good one. I will try not to take it personally as none of you know me in real-life. But, as a person who prides myself on maintaining a high level of integrity and honor, the accusation that I am a cheater is incredibly insulting. But I do appreciate you allowing me to make an appeal. Thank you for your time in reading this, and your open consideration of reversing the Course of Action.
I understand it's the mod's job to maintain a server that is balanced and fair. I appreciate this and am glad that the moderators are active and care about the community. This further reinforces that this server is indeed a good one. I will try not to take it personally as none of you know me in real-life. But, as a person who prides myself on maintaining a high level of integrity and honor, the accusation that I am a cheater is incredibly insulting. But I do appreciate you allowing me to make an appeal. Thank you for your time in reading this, and your open consideration of reversing the Course of Action.
Re: Hylian8
The act of finding Iron and Coal by digging should not be damning evidence of XRaying. I understand that the high numbers caught your attention, but I've already made a perfectly reasonable case that I've spent an adequate amount of time on the server to warrant the high numbers of these extremely common resources.
I've been wrongfully banned for a couple days now. I look forward to an official response.
I've been wrongfully banned for a couple days now. I look forward to an official response.
Re: Hylian8
Your appeal isn't being ignored, It is being discussed between the staff members. Just so you know.
Re: Hylian8
Okay, thank you.